from other ppl's blog

MLM? Or Pyramid Schemes?
by poook, commented by bee87
8 November 2004, Monday - 22:43

The following entry was taken from Friend-less (with added personal comments). It was written by my friend, poook.

- What is a Pyramid Scheme?

It is an illegal scam where large numbers of people at the bottom of the pyramid pay money to a few people at the top. It works like the MLM Binary plan. Each new participant pays for the chance to advance to the top and profit from payments of others who might join later.

Example:
1
2.2
3-3.3-3

With reference to the diagram, we will assume each Level consists of 1 person only.

In this example, $1,000 buys you a position in Level 3 . $500 of your money goes to the guy in Level 2 [The person who pulled you in] , and $500 goes to the guy at Level 1 [The promoter]

If every position in Level 3 is filled up, the guy at Level 1 will each earn $2,000. Everyone in Level 3 will be $1,000 poorer.

When Level 1 has earned enough, he will step down and Level 2 will upgrade to become Level 1. Only then will these 2 guys start to profit. [Remember that they are initially from Level 2.]

For the 2 guys at Level 1 to earn their profits, they must each find 4 more people to fill up Level 3. Which means that they now need 8 people to fill up Level 3 in order to keep the profits coming.

As for the people at Level 3, their job now is to find more people to join in. Which means that they have unknowingly been upgraded to Level 2! Once more people have joined in, they will be able to earn their profits from the people at Level 3. And this cycle just keeps repeating itself.

- What are the signs of a Pyramid Scheme?

1) You are required to pay a LARGE amount of money to participate.

They would tell you that the large amount of money is needed because of TRAINING COURSES, PURCHASE OF PRODUCTS, SERVICES, ENTRY FEES, ETC.

This is a clear sign of a scam, because MLM only requires you to pay a SMALL fee to participate. The purpose of MLM is to make it easy and inexpensive for everyone to be able to participate in, and that includes the vegetable auntie at the market.

2) They focus entirely on RECRUITMENT.

This is because the Pyramid Scheme benefits entirely from recruitment fees, like I've just explained earlier. The company will emphasis on this VERY MUCH. They will just encourage you to recruit more people and not to think about it.

3) Products involved are usually not useful and grossly OVERPRICED.

Multi-level marketing (like other methods of retailing) depends on selling to consumers and establishing a market. This requires quality products, competitively priced.

Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, are not concerned with sales to end users of the product. Profits are made from new recruits who are required to buy those products in order to participate.

A common product that Pyramid Scheme uses is aromatheraphy products . Aromatheraphy products does not allow one easily to know its market values because it is uncommon. Hence, it is definitely easier to pull off using aromatheraphy products.

Why do they bother to use the product in the first place? It's used to shut the mouths of those who argue about the entry fees. They could tell you that the product alone costs $300. And because you do not know about the market value of the product, you stupidly agree with them.

Think about it; a few hundred dollars for aromatheraphy products? Isn't it a bit suspicious?

4) Nothing is mentioned about their products.

When you question about their products, they will openly REFUSE to answer you. Instead, they will concentrate on how much you can earn monthly by increasing the number of people under you in the pyramid. This is a clever form of brainwashing because people are GREEDY (Note from editor: Or rather, such 'industry' attracts greedy people. That, however, is clearly an understatement because there are people who are not greedy but are coaxed into joining. They belong to the Gullible group.). As long as they can get their money, they don't care where it comes from.

Furthermore, if the company really does depend on the selling of products to survive, why are they not talking about the advertisement and sales of the products? Why are you not required to know about them? Ask yourself.

5) You are required to do almost nothing at all.

MLM is like any other business and needs hard work, perseverance, good service and good products to make money.

Pyramid schemes need little effort to make money because all they need to do is to RECRUIT PEOPLE. That is why it is easy to make money.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EASY MONEY IN THIS WORLD.

[Edit by original author] This is basic common sense. But because people get blinded by greed so often, they tend to forget this very important advice. (Editor: Actually, it dosen't really matter what course you're taking. It's more like being able to analyse the situation with a mature enough mindset and not make stupid decisions because of certain factors, like greed.).

6) You get stuck with products that you CANNOT refund.

Legitimate MLM companies which require inventory purchases will usually "buy back" unsold products if you decide to quit the business.

Pyramid Schemes, on the other hand, will decline to provide a FULL refund even if you request for it. Such companies will promise you that a full refund is possible, but will decline to do so when you request for it.

This entry is written especially for some of my friends who are in NTI Paris currently. Not that I'm against them, but the details my friends have given me about the company matched those of a Pyramid Scheme exactly.

I hope that they will read this and make a decision for themselves.

(Information extracted from: DSA and sgForums )

I've decided to copy the entire post here, as well as included llink to the Original entry. I would like to make the article more prominent, instead of only available over at Friend-less.

From Strait times Forum

Dangers of multi-level marketing

I ma writing to raise awareness of teh recent rise of multi-level marketing firms that may engage in underhand or even illegal tactics.

Several weeks ago, I attended a seminar on multi-level marketing in Shenton Way. During the seminar, the audience, mostly teenagers, were subject to what could be tremed 'brainwashing'.

They were inundated with fantastic claims of paths to riches, using a gimmicky prsentation style which involved loud cheering and enthusiastic clapping from staff. At the end of the seminar, which focused almost exclusively on the cost of livingand how the company can help one achieve one's dreams of material well-being, I was left bewildered. Thre was absolutely no mention of teh product they were selling.

When I questioned this, I was told: "Does the product really matter? I could go on and on about the benefits of aromatheraphy, but what is important here is our marketing technique."

As it turned out, this marketing technique closely resembles pyramid selling. To join the scheme, you pay a fee to buy an aromatheraphy product. For each person you sell more products to, you receive a commission. And for each sale, the person who got you to join the scheme receives the same commission.

The chain continues ,with more people pulled into the scheme, and those on top getting rich quick.

What is suspicious is first, the focus is on the sales method rather than the product. Second, they seem too eager to impress the audience and the potential customers with flashy presenters and pushy marketing.

Third, the commission structure is strange, to say the least. The commission is the same for the person who sells the product, and the person above him in the chain. This means those higher in the chain can simply live off the fruits of others labour. It encourages continuous selling until there is no one left to sell to.

I hope to draw attention to such schemes as the amounts involved are not small and those who join later will definitely be left disappointed.

As such scheme proliferate, I hope the authorities can clarify what is legal and take action against any perpetrators who are engaged in illegal activities.

Leow Zi Xiang

Beware of hard-sell tactics

I refer to Mr Leow Zixiang's letter, 'Dangers of multi-level marketing' (ST, Dec 30).

I was recently persuaded by a friend to go for a talk about a "business plan". It turned out to be a talk by an MLM company. Like Mr Leow, I was told it was the 'business plan', and not the product, that was important.

I succumbed to the pressure from the sales representatives and paid $864 to start three accounts and to buy some aromatheraphy products.

I was taught the methods they use to get prospective members to join the scheme, which include:

a) Never telling the 'prospect' that it is an MLM scheme. Just say it is a business plan.

b) Not letting the 'prospect' go home and 'think about it', as he is likely to have second thoughts.

I felt cheated as these tactics were used on me and I was now expected to use them on others.

I demanded a full refund but was told this was possible only if someone else come and took over my account.

I wish to alert the public about such hard-sell techniques. I advise those who are easily persuaded to stand their ground and join only when they thoroughly understand what the company is offering.

Lim Jia Qing

One more victims of sales scheme

I refer to Mr Lim Jia Qing's letter , 'Beware of hard-sell tactics' (ST Jan 1). Like him, I paid $864 for three accounts and I am sure that we fell prey to the same multi-level marketing (MLM) firm.

In one meeting I had with its representatives, the firm arranged for three people to turn up, evidently to try to intimidate me. They were willing to drive me to the nearest ATM at 1 am to make sure I did not back out.

A week later, when I asked for my money back due to financial difficulties, they laughed and said the only way out was to get someone to take my account.

I have since realised I have been cheated. Can I lodge a police report about it?

The start up cost in this scheme is unreasonable for the amount of products paid for. The aromatheraphy products are also not described clearly in presentations and on the company's website.

I hope the Direct Selling Association of SIngapore and the authorities will act against this firm. I have gone for talks by other more reputable MLM companies and I ams sure the one Mr Lim and I have been pressured into joining can be deemed illegal.

Lastly, I would like to appeal to all to be wary of this company, which has an expensive-looking flash website and claims international links. In fact, all it does is to emphasise recruitment.

Lim Yan Ting (MS)

Cops to probe multi-level schemes.

We refer to the letters from Mr Leow Zi Xiang (ST, Dec 30), Mr Benjamin Tan, Mr Lim Jia Qing, Mr Tan Soon Meng, (ST Jan 1) and Ms Lim Yan Ting (ST, Jan 3).

The Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) and Pyramid Selling (Prohibition)Act prohibits multi-level business schemes, except for those which satisfy certain conditions. Information on the Act and Frequently-Asked Questions relating to MLM can be found on the Ministry of Trade and Industry' website (www.mti.gov.sg) under 'Legislation";

The Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) of the Singapore Police Force (SPF) investigates offences under the MLM legislation. We request Mr Leow, Mr Lim and Ms Lim to contact ASP Mohd Shahri on 6557-5458 so that the SPF can look into the matter.

ASP Chua Chee Wai
Assistant Director (MEdia Relations) (Covering)
Singapore Police Force

Lim Chuen Ni (MS)
Corporate Communication Manager
for Permanent Secretary
Ministry of Trade and Industry.

from a guy laurence82

Sigh....tell you my story.

I ord from Army this year in August, and waiting for school to start. I was aimless and need to find job. Yes I can hold out my hand and ask my mother for money. My family is not rich, but is not in want. However, I want to get outside experience, and I dont want to burden my mum (wait, let not my mum read this, she will laugh) So, i got acquainted with Herbalife thru net.

However, I found a better company.And now is doin it. But, I was still invited by many companies to go down and see. I been to AMH and nti too. At first I can see AMH is legal, but maybe lousy due to reasons you all know. After that, I met nti. I was shocked, coz been thru few companies, it was the first time I seen such companies. You all can see my points I posted. I was worried and start doing my research. Contacted people involve in scams, talked to experienced networkers, research by articles books, talk to people on sgforums, contact few guys in nti too. Therefore, my points as i posted

However, however, however, i was scared. I met one of my friends and he gave me this advice. He was involved in such scams before. He told me few things and plus my points I present to you guys in the next post
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Ok ,as for the pros and cons of whether to inform the police.

a) Can you assure me the police is that good? Look, if you look at the Commercial Affairs Department website, it lists the procedure of reporting such scams. It is damn leceh, and you need certain evidence to back you up. Your friend wrote you the binary plan on a piece of blank paper, which you did not keep. The company website did not show the recruitment plan, only the "sales" plan. Scheming arent them? Even for CASE. The procedures is enough to kill you, less the investigation part.

I read in an article, that seven case were reported to CAD last year. So far, nothing to substantiate the claims, even after investigations.

How good is the CAD? Look, comparing US police and SG police, we are far behind. In US, the police has been streetwise from young. They discern from own experience, instead of just reading past cases. True they are educated, but they clamp down more on scams than us. Not forgetting US scams are a lot and cleverer. In US each month, each state police are grabbing a handfull of scams.

In SG, I was disgusted of the low rate of capture of scams. I seen pyramid scams up and running for long time, and they exist in many places. Commodities are back, with vengeance. All the newspaper did was just a small report few months ago on laws on commodities. In US, they clamp down on binary a lot. According to an experienced networker in SG, the reason why police is not clamping down yet is because binary has yet to cause a furore. Remember, binary is a double edged sword. In US, more than half of the binaries companies have been clamped down. Not because binary is illegal (well it isnt), just that it is easily used as basics of pyramid.

It takes a thief to catch a thief. I admit, Ntiparis is f***king sophiscated, compared to usual scams. But scammers are very clever people. Each time, scams are getting more sophiscated and difficult to catch. Most DSA or mlm watchdogs would prefer you to just leave cases to police, coz nowadays, only experienced networker can see thru most sophiscated ones. Actually, those esperienced are mostly of our parents age or been out there for many years. Unless our police is confirmed that good, or they have paid informants and other tools to help them, police may not catch the. Primary rule number one - You must outsmart scammers. And scammers move fast.

I will explain the sophiscation of scams nowadays later, and why it is not easy, and why you cant see even if they stare at you right in the face.

All hopes lost? Well, you can go and report to police, but dont have high hopes. Nothing may come up.

But if the police is successful? Minimal punishment for participants of scam (your friends) can be just warning letters. Max? $30,000 to $200,000 fine, or jail for five years or both. NSFs and Regulars beware. Five years in civilian jail may also equal to five years in DB, plus other charges SAF might put up. For the organisers of such scams, the penalty might be higher. All in all, your friends are at risk of jail or heavy fines.

Well, a glimmer of hope here. Go read up on S888.com. Coz of it, MLM is legalised ,as well as regulated under DSAS, CASE and MTI. Funnily, most of us teenagers hardly join these companies that are under DSAS or large recognised companies. Many I know joins dubious, small, shady ones. You must know the perils of shady young business.If you read up on S888.com, it was caught not because it physically flouts the laws on pyramid, but because it runs in the spirit of one. Thats why police caught them.

These are the pros and cons of calling police. What happened if you sit back and do nothing?
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b) Look, you can sit back and do nothing. Why?

Lets say you do nothing, and company collapse (it will). Your friends are not losing anything. If your friends join in as "pioneers" of the company, they would have earned liao and recovers that 288 dollars they pumped in. For short term, they will definitely earn. The reasons I will explain as promised just now. In long term, either they find their earnings "dropped" or the company make infrequent payments, or even withold money in form of vouchers. They just stop earning , thats all. They wont lose money, coz others start to pump in money for them at present. Maybe when company collapse, they just learn the lessons, and waste time and effort only.

How about people who joins and company collapse the next day? Look, $288 is nothing for a simple lessons. Too bad I have to be straightforward. People lost five figure sums in the commodities scams before, and this is their coffin money or life savings. $288 is too small to pay for a worthy lesson.

All in all, nobody is taking a steep fall from this climb on the mountain. They just reroute, thats all. They are not going to lose everything, just time and effort.

What I am most afraid of some bastards will take my friends and go look for another company, resulting in a merry go round. They will not stop to look for money, just that they will continue doing so till others lead them away from the bad influence

However, however, however, like I told friends who has siblings inside, that I cannot assure you that definitely police will remain clueless and not knocking on your friends door. Coz, we are not the only people in whole of SG who knows. Simply said, whether or not to report to police is up to you. It is choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea. Sigh...

When I came to this conclusion, I could not accept it at first, coz I was impatient, and wish company will collapse and I can have my friends back, especially one of them whom I wish to be my godbrother. I was farking tired of the company agents evasiveness and, most of all, my friend stubborness and hostility towards others.

However, do not stop your crusade, Dennis. Attempt to explain to others what you seen and know. Btw, for people who read this, let me assure you guys one thing. I have seen the wide tentacles of ntiparis and NOP. When the saga comes to end, it will cause furore in the country, especially the teenagers like the commodities scams to our parents many years ago. Just be prepared.

End
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Guys, I just noted something in Dennis post that I should have notice long time ago.(knock myself on head)

What is 2 to the power of 30? Wink

There once a knight who done a deed for the king. He was offered by the king to ask for anything he wishes. The knight ask for a grain of rice (i think it is rice or something) according to a certain calculations. He ask for a grain of rice for the first square on the chessboard, and two grains on the second square, and four on the third square. So for each square of chessboard, the number of grains doubles. The knight ask for the sum of of all the grains that appears on the 64 squares. The king laughed and agreed. The knight smiled and told the king its not possible. The king ask why. Here's why

If you guys use your calculator and calculate, the amount of grains is 1.8 x (10 to the power of 19) on just the 64th square! I havent even total up yet, forgot the formula for geometrical progression.

Heck it is 18 million million million grains just on 64th square. Even if the king harvest all the crops past present and future, he cant still give the knight whats he wants in total. The mathematician alredi calculate this and found it to be impossible to achieve.

.......................................................................................................

If I give you $100,000 today for the month, or 1 cent which doubles itself for everyday of the month, which would you take? Most will take $100,000 coz it looks quite big at first sight. People, the 1 cent which doubles it self ends up as $ 5,368,709.13.

..............................................................................................

Here is the kicker from Dennis here.

ntiparis is binary meaning two guys under you, two guys under each of them. ntiparis earns up to 30th level. Meaning (pounce away on your calculator) at the 30th level alone, your network has 1,073,741,824 people. Gasp, you have whole of China under you. Walau. This is almost impossible, even without adding up the total.

Haha, ntiparis is mathematically flawed too. This is crazy.

................END......................

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From Timandra:

Kudos to lawrence82 for providing the links to binary plans regulation in the US. It helps to raise the awareness of people. Actually went down to ntiparis to see look some days ago, through some contacts of mine lah. As mentioned in the previous articles as well as in the straits times articles in the papers since the 30th, it really appears to me that there's some truth in their claims. Although it's common for companies to present their marketing plans first to prospects, it's bull$@!% to proclaim that products are not important lah, with not much information on them somemore... However, my friend from the company provided me with an acceptable explaination. With regards to the lack of info on products, he apologised and confessed that they're minimal solely because of the delay in printing etc, which are out of his control, but he'll try to answer my questions to the best of his knowledge.. He also acknowledged that there're indeed many in the company engaging in tatics that'll raise a brow or two, so voila, it's now in the papers.. (Although the first article presented in the papers on the 30th is more of a lack of knowledge of the plan & industry...)

Black sheep there may be in the company, but my friend did mention that he'll try his best within his means to engage in more ethical approach etc. but of course, only within his group and hopefully to the rest of the company. Feedback is welcome anytime...
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From laurence82:

Timandra, I read your post and I do not agree with the part on them not pushing products due to lack of sales kits.

a) If they lacked of sales kits, where would my $288 goes? If much of it goes towards products, two points. One, $288 pays for many aromatheraphy products. Wouldnt it be front loading?. Two, $288 pays for few aromatheraphy poducts. Arent they grossly overpriced?

Hope you dont say it goes towards recruitment commission? Hehe

b) Aromatheraphy products, unlike many other products, does not allow one easily to know the markets demand and market values. Remember what I posted about many pyramid putting many exotic stuff as front for their scheme? ntiparis did not prove the quality and effectivenes of these products they are selling. Also, these are luxury goods, and not neccessities, how would one expect teenagers to sell when a) their contacts are also teenagers with no money and no demand for these goods b)parents who may have money but no demand c)do they have many rich contacts?

Effectiveness of aromatheraphy is not conclusive, although I would prescribe it for theraphy and wellness, than healing and curing.

Basically, for aromatheraphy, I would rather turn to BelairParis. (Just a story, my friend's fiancee was in Belair, but he couldnt tahan the smell, seems girls appreciate aromatheraphy better)

c) Belairparis do provide infos and catalogues on their products. Look, I dont know whats ntiparis products, effectiveness and most of all safety. If ntiparis lack of catalogue and sales kits

1)how they manage to sell without sale kits these time all along- by word of mouth? meaning they have very good saleman. Sorry I wont be able to join coz I am not a good speaker. Cool

2) how do they train their downlines? I need these product guides and stuff to guide me too. If everything comes by word of mouth, are they really effective in passing required information to downlines, up to the usage of these products?

3) Nothing to prove the effectiveness and safety of these products. Imagine I took a weight loss product without knowing the contents, and later to discover it contains ephedrine. Similarly, we do not know the safety mark, and quality check of these products. All companies provide services or products, and as MLM company, nti should have good aromatheraphy products in the market...or is it? And whether they are good or not, the agents should be also pushing sales of products, not just recruitment.

Most of all, one of my friend join in last year. Dont tell me that ntiparis has been runing without a sales kits all these past year? I asked another friend once for sale kits and stuff. He told me he didnt bring. I had suspected all along they do not have sales kits. For the past one year!!! Something is not right somewhere...

I went to one young company once, with its boss having minimal MLM experience. They already have everything set up, including products catalogue and stuff. Even literature of their marketing plans have been printed out.. James Phang claims he has many years experience in MLM, yet not having a product cat, or for that matter, any literature on the company seems like a farce to me.

Let me tell you an experience. My friend and his relative wanted to set up a restaurant. They have planned everything and presented their plans to their investors. I was there, and saw the whole hting. I was impressed, coz because of their experience, they have include every minor details. Like MLM or any biz, there are like certain "must do" routine before setting up a biz. Even if you are damn experienced you would have left out something. But remember, products are mainstay of biz, and for MLMers, products guides are a must,so it would be no excuse for an experienced guy like him not to to have produce it beforehand.

d0 Cutting edge? Basically, ntiparis form the above points have either dubious or lousy management, sorry to say that. On the front, I do agree, ntiparis seems want to correct the faults of other companies. After research, not only do I find it dubious, it has more faults than other established companies.

For a boss of Amway to close down his business and to start another, I would expect better results with the new one, Unfortunately, after some time, I dont find ntiparis much more fantastic than NOP. I told tibirg this before, for inexperienced MLMers, just wait. It took AMH sometime for everyone to know its faults. To nitparis, it will take sometime for people to know whether it works. As of now, the faults are start to show up. with now reports in the paper already.

I will repeat what I said before in reference to DennisLam posts, nti will be to us what commodities done ot our parents few years back
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Wah so hiong arh, true in one thing is that once a pyramid or any scam gets too big and get noticed, it will vamoose before you can say "scam!"

I forgot one point on Timandra post

NOP is still running, and as investment company. Remember the Batam club which was never built despite 1000 people paying $3800 each for it. That belongs to NOP Investment.

If I were to say a guy who failed can never rise again, thats utterly childish. Yet I have not harp on James Phang failures. What I mentioned is his NOP (supposedly his past) is still running, as we can know from the Batam case.

Plus these two dubious companies, make me worried as to james Phang personality.

Btw, there is this maxim I recently learned and adhere to. Boss of MLM companies must not have second business. Sounds funny? It happened. MLM must equals distributor welfare. A boss which has many business are merely looking at which business is the most profitable.

To agents in ntiparis who are imbued with "biz knowledge", this having many biz may shows the boss is "talented" and can run business well, and know the power of investment too.

To many MLMers, this is nonsense, coz the boss is not concentrating on his MLM biz as core, and looking for his own profits. Lack of focus is the mainstay of many rising MLM biz problems. Worse as in many biz in corporate world, we may not know where the profits are actually channelled to.
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more comments on NTI from Sg forum

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hMz...all i can say is that the upper managements or uplines, you so called, are good at acting n psycho ppl...if they can't make you to believe their words, it won't be still there...these ppl are professional in confusing n brainwashing...though not 100% effective...

Cases of my frens in there found it not fantastic as what it was all abt in the beginning...he was the pioneer batch (Been with it for abt 3yrs or so)...

He has not even been making $$$....

For your info, if one of them(Upline) has ever show you his payslip, ranging from 3K~10K/mth....well..it's not true...those payslips are actually the salaries of the upper management...those are used to lure ppl into it...
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nti's main strength in staying alive is because of its ability to draw in new groups of gullible young teens. Consider the rate of number of teens entering JCs and polys, NS and ORD personnels. Like I said, with regards to nti previous plan, it draws on recruitment rather than continual or repeated sales. Once the previous batch of people gather what they are in for, they left. But there are fresh groups of young teens that can be drawn into the company.

As for the comparison between CHC and MLM companies, the only similarity i can note of is the charismatic approach taken by both groups. Otherwise, its unfair to compare spirituality and business.

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Hi all, i wish i have stumbled upon this website be4 going down to NTIparis...
recently a friend of mine invited me down saying she got a "business proposal" so i just agreed to it since i was quite free on tht day.

After abt 5 hrs, it was 11+at night , i was tired and hungry (missed my dinner), and the "manager" was still trying to convince me. i tried telling them tht i will go home and consider, but they keep on trying to convince them. After awhile, blinded by the promise of "big money" and "business opportunity" i finally agreed and signed up as a "silver merchant" which requires me to pay $1600++
the next morning, i regretted my decision and tried called the manager, and we agreed to meet on later date to discuss abt my refund

pls if anyone has any tips or can provide any kind of assistance, pls let me know
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ell i've enuf fun...................

as long as nti noe wat kind of status thy r in, i'm happy enuf.....

whether nti is loser or winner, thy noe beta..........

me 'xin zhao bu xuan'

my best frends called me to ask me stop b4 the situation 'bu ke shou shi'

well tis is realli wat best frends should do.....

unlike some ppl wif pretentious behaviour............

onli noe hw to pull u into $$#@.............

to nti ppl: bye................tis is my last post...............be rational b4 u do anything.........the more u get agitated the more it shows tat ur poison is in ur body...........pls do some self cleansing..........

hw to self cleanse????

stop going to nti lessons...........

thy r all propaganda...............

stop all ur activities & stop all recruitment..........

the more u recruit the more ppl will suffer

pls admit u have been conned & stop ur w a y w a r d behavior b4 u go crazy......

leave the coy & stop thinking abt getting ur capital......it's useless........

be a newbie..............

start anew......

turn over a new leaf.........

jus my 1 million worth of opinion.............

bye................
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Dear all,

I am a student. I am writing this because I have just came back from the NTI Paris office in Shenton Way. I was asked to go there by a friend who was in turned invited by an NTI Paris employee. Now, after listening to 2 hours of drivel from the NTI employee, all I have to say is that NTI Paris is a devious and despicable pyramid scam, and I swear I will do everything in my power to bring it down before it harms more innocents.

Pardon me if I am wrong, but isn't the main concept of any business, MLM or not, to sell *products* and not to recruit people into the company for monetary gains? This was the overwhelming impression that I was given at NTI Paris. The employee who talked to me consistently refused to answer questions about the actual products (aromatherapy stuff) that they were selling, concentrating instead on the amount of money that I can earn each month by building up the pyramid under me. He emphasized very strongly on the fact that money is mainly made from recruitment; each time someone joins your binary-downlink tree, you get money from it. When questioned about what the company actually have to does for a living, he evaded the question, and zealously went back to talking about the immense monetary benefits of creating "business centers." He continuously points to the benefits of buying business centers and bringing in more people to the fold, going so far as to warn me not to spread the word too much, because as of now, I am "not sufficiently trained to advertise the company," and that the time will come when I will be sufficiently trained to advertise this business plan to further recruits.

Now this begs the question, if the business plan is so amazingly good that every employee become instant millionaires if they work hard enough, then why is there a need for such secrecy? Also, and the more pertinent question is, WHERE DOES ALL THIS MONEY COME FROM? Simple mathematics will tell you that it comes from all the people at the bottom of the pyramid, the people who have been sweet-talked into giving hundreds or even thousands on dollars to the company, with no hope of getting any returns either because the market is already saturated, or because the people at the top of the pyramid has run away with all the money. The NTI Paris employee frequently brings up the subject of "following your dreams" and "becoming what you want to be," as do most MLM employees in this thread. I encourage people to do their best in life too, and to strive to make as much money as they can, if that is indeed their aim. But the question is, AT WHAT COST? Is it worth it financing your dreams by bilking other people out of their hard-earned money? That is crime, and at a time like this, I cannot possibly condone such dastardly business acts.

The names "James Phang" and "Dato Dr. Eric Tan Eng Huat" was frequently mentioned during my talk with the NTI Paris employee. It was mentioned in such reverence, suggesting that they are saintly figures who have made it rich, and are interested in helping us commoners to be "part of the wealth" too. Believe none of this. If indeed they are aware of this, they are cheats indeed, and very malicious ones too. They are the rich who wants to get richer by swindling the poor of even more wealth. Charitable businessmen? More like decadent frauds. And the employees who use their names as part of the recruitment speech should be deeply ashamed.

Now you may ask, why am I so outraged? Am I working for another MLM that wants to see NTI Paris go down? No, I am not. In fact, I stand to gain nothing from NTI Paris' demise, if that occurs. But I do have friends who have invested much of their money in the scheme, and are prepared to further recruit more innocent people into the scheme to finance their earnings. They do not realize that the business plan is fundamentally flawed, or that the money that they get comes from people at the "bottom of the pile." It is never a Win-Win situation, it is Win-Lose; the people at the top of the pyramid gets richer, the people at the bottom gets poorer. And don't pull the curtains over my eyes by telling me that the pyramid can go on getting deeper forever ... a fool is born every minute, but a binary tree made up of "business partners" won't go beyond 50 levels even if you include all the people who have ever set foot on the earth, past and present.

There is never easy money. Not lawful ones anyway (excluding the one-in-a-million chance of a lottery ticket). It pains me to see my friends getting their money sucked into this deceitful scheme. And so I must speak out, before more people get cheated of their/ their parent's hard earned money.
************************************************

more on what happen in NTI. Obtained from Sg forum

Source: http://mlmg.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=107666&page=0

Let's compile what rubbish has NTIparis has done.

If anyone have any points about NTIparis please post it up here for all the victims to see, because everytime we only say it is a pyramid, they are bulls.h.i.t.s, etc, but never say why.

Start with me first, NTIparis likes to con gullible, innocent, young and people who failed in business. They also like to brainwash their agents by keep telling and repeating what Desmond and Jacky had achieved, however they have hidden many fact within. They like to say NTIparis is a business, but actually it is even worst than a proper job. For a job as long as you are working, you will get the deserved pay. In this NTIparis, even you are doing something or many things, you will not neccessary get any pay or your deserved pay. My friends everyday without fails goes to work... and what did they get? Hearing same and the same nonsense, wasting the more and even more time, effort. Is this worth?

***NTIparis had keep discrete does not mean it does not exist, this huge problem had been ignored does not mean it had been solve.***

From a victim:
I pay $35 for the register fees , $288 *4 =$1152

after some weeks later i cant find people to join under me , they started to ask me to invest 3 more account that will be $864 , i didnt invest in it . i havent earns money , yet ask me to invest so much .

At the time , i have a feeling that , they just want to con my money , say that he is helping his what upup line fighting for car funds and credit card .. what a craps.. From what i know , the top guys over that cant earns much . how can a top guys there drive only a japanese car which cost less than 80k ??? How can i success in NTI Question Question Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

And their so call credit card is just only a debit card . i just call it muti purpose debit card . i check out with the bank , the bank just call it a normal membership card with some debit point in it ..
i as well apply a ocbc or posb debit cards better .

To all the BRM and the best acting male RSD in NTI .u know who u r ? pls wake up yr ideal can earns that much , dont act like u earns that much i feel sad for u .

From another comment giver:
To the people who feel cheated: Firstly, you don't understand the concept fully, that's why you feel cheated. You CAN earn money from NTIParis, it's only when you're unable to get anyone to join, you don't earn anything. That's why you feel cheated.

If NTIParis is really a scam, it would have been deemed illegal and would have been shut down already.
*from me: but if we get more of our friends to join, then we will also be dragging them down into the mud. As it's the registration fees that are going around in the company.*

From a guy who have a clear mind:
Anyway, for those who wants to know more abt ntiparis, I could only tell you as much, so could G.H.O.S.T (hullo!) or other guys. The rest is up to you to decide whether ntiparis is worth doing.

When I was first approached by my friend, he lead me to the old office on ground floor, sat down and start pounding away by writing the marketing plan on three pieces of paper.I noted the following,

1. He wrote out the first plan, which states how much you can first earn by recruitment. Everyone pays $288, you put them under you or your downline "Business centre" binary system style, therefore earning certain amount for each set of number of people you have balanced under you. I was shocked, and ask him immediately if there are products involved.He told me yes, products are included.

2. He then wrote a second plan, which involves how much you earn by sales. This plan you all can see on their website. His reasoning was that they move recruitment first, then later sales. Sounds like a good MLM company which wanted to correct faults of other failed companies? Here are the anomalies I found out

Quote from DSA US on disguised pyramid.
'If the startup cost is substantial, be careful! The start-up fee in multilevel companies is generally small (usually for a sales kit sold at or below company cost). These companies want to make it easy and inexpensive for you to start selling. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, make nearly all of their profit on signing up new recruits. Therefore, the cost to become a distributor is usually high. CAUTION: PYRAMIDS OFTEN DISGUISE ENTRY FEES AS PART OF THE PRICE CHARGED FOR REQUIRED PURCHASES OF TRAINING, COMPUTER SERVICES, PRODUCT INVENTORY, etc. These purchases may not even be expensive or "required," but there will be considerable pressure to "take full advantage of the opportunity.";

To look like a multilevel marketing company, a pyramid scheme takes on a line of products and claims to be in the business of selling them to consumers. However, little or no effort is made to actually market the products. Instead, money is made in typical pyramid fashion, from recruiting. New distributors are pushed to purchase large and costly amounts of inventory when they sign up

For example, you might have to purchase $1,000 of nearly worthless products in order to become a "distributor."; The person who recruited you receives $500 (a fifty percent commission) and $500 goes to the top (the company, in this case). Notice the similarity to the simple pyramid scheme

a. I have been to many legal companies, either under DSAS or MNCs. No distributor has ever earn from their downline at the first instance, which is by earning a commission by recruitment, and from the large amount of monies a new guy puts in. Most companies registration fees goes toward processing of membership only. Plus they are usually small, like two figure sum only.

b. My friend told me products are included within the entry fees, while other distributor I know told me the products are free with the entry fees. Sounds like normal MLM companies with sales products? No. MLM companies profits derived largely from revenue of sales of products. Experienced MLMers will tell you that the companies would have need its distributors to have confidence with the products to enable a sales force. But now you are absorbing products without knowing whether its good. If its part of entry fee, the company is telling you to absorb products without questions. And since by right start up fees should be small, is large amount of the $288 goes towards the products which you have no knowledge of?

If the products are free, then isn’t the recruitment plan pyramid-like?
Guys, if you present this plan in front of CAD officers, good luck! Just for this portion, they could charge you with participating in pyramid. Look at S888.com, where people earns by recruitment commissions.

c. The first plan was never shown on their website. I wonder why? Unlike other companies, some or all of the agents go around presenting their binary plan of pieces of paper, proclaiming binary to be the best plan around, and always emphasising on business and recruitment. Whereas other companies would have already some form of printed media to show people their marketing plan.. So that it wasnt easy for people to catch them for evidence since they can throw the paper away? I was never shown the products nor asked to buy. This is why G.H.O.S.T says they were very focused on recruitment. Very.

Quote again
Are the company's products sold to consumers?
IF THE ANSWER IS NO (OR NOT MANY), STAY AWAY! This is a key element. Multilevel marketing (like other methods of retailing) depends on selling to consumers and establishing a market. This requires quality products, competitively priced. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, are not concerned with sales to end users of the product. Profits are made on volume sales to new recruits, who buy the products, not because they are useful or attractively priced, but because they must buy them to participate. Inventory purchases should never be more than you can realistically expect to sell or use yourself

d. The second plan shown how much you earn by sales. Initially, I thought after they finish building their network (recruitment) they would focus on sales. This is where a lot of strange things happen.
One of my friends has been working for quite some time, and is always recruiting people. He has never ask me to buy, and staunchly refuse to sell after other people approach him. Timandra and I have discussed this. She was puzzled as to why their agents could be even refuse to sell. Another contact told me another story, where they are two groups of people. Either you are recruiting all the time, or you are selling. ???

e. Where do the products go? Every month the agents pump in $50 to purchase products for 'own consumption' or resales. Two things:
the company is telling you to pump in $50 or get out of the company. If you have large network under you, if everyone pump in $50, you can earn quite a lot. Second, why the hell you need to make the effort to resell those products if you just need to pump in $50 to earn those hundred or thousands of dollars under you? Just keep them at home lah. In the end you absorbing products and accumulating them at home. This is known as maintenance requirement for membership and to earn the money from the network under you.

Quote again
Most disguised pyramids, however, are not this easy to unmask. Pyramid schemes often choose products which are cheap to produce but which have no established market value, such as new miracle products, exotic cures, etc. This makes it difficult to tell whether there is a real consumer market for the products

f. So far, are the products good? I open the topic to the floor. I was never asked to buy even though I have contacts in ntiparis. I checked up the website, hardly any info on products. They even have a statement on how nowadays health product is important in light of SARS. Aromatheraphy to cure SARS?

Plus if you examine the products, they are a) exotic b) unknown brand and unchecked source of products c) sometimes I wonder where the hell are the sales kits of these products I asked my friend for d) aromatheraphy are not largely for the mass consumer market, only select people who has the money to spend


I have covered the recruitment style and sales? of the products of the company. Watch out for more feature I have found to be fishy in this company

From a passerby:
woah! very specific entry indeed Lawrence82, thanks for those info. well, now my friend seems like brainwashed by those ppl there and was encouraging me to take a look and listen to the talks at their company *without joining them, just listen* but as what I've read in this forum if I were to join them to listen I might get hooked by them no matter how. So I bet this company will collapse anytime... I did visit the website it seems like a "fake" web site though, recognition is not stated, products seems so "cheap" and how could they sell with that high price... what a company...

From someone who knows about the situation:
I, Liling, the author of this blog, myself, support the knowledge.


hope dat it may be of some use to u:
(extract from nti agent)

Rules of making an appointment :

1. use the phone (make calls lar...sounds familiar?telephone operator aka the starhub salesman!!wahahaha)

2. K.I.S.S(keep it short and simple--dun disclose too much,keep it SECRETIVE)

3. 2 choose 1 ( let ya victim choose between 2 days. i.e he will be forced subconsiously to make a choice and promise u to meet u o either of 2 days)

4. Confirm of place,time (be firm,professional)

5.Inform upline for presentation ( so that your CONCERNED manager will be ever-ready n appear and boasts to u how much he has earned. *i wonder nti has a script for them n do they practise in front of the mirror? *

6.Resons of Failure:
-leak of content ( tell u to be secretive wad...we not supposed to tell them we gonna kidnap their $ u still say!! )

-desperate implore ( please la....meet me le....we go for coffee lar...really...i treat u to the best satay dere ok? although we live in e west. we still meet in the central ok? )

-using mealtimes as an excuse (we are going to have lunch ONLY, since when the company popped out as our final destination? )

-invitation of too many people ( aka "san ge chou bi jiang ding ge zhuge liang" because negative influence is highly contagious.Hence Dr Nti suggests that we will attend to one patient at one time such that they will receive the Prince Charles/Princess Diana treatment)


When i was there, the manager brought me for a tour, with people greetings " Mr XXXXX" (kinda impressed) , later showed me a biz plan of how will my life change with and without NTI.And then...showed me his account of "earnings" n the cctv(wow~~ FBI ah?) , however i still smiled n continued to act blur.Actually all along, i just sounded interested thats all, because i just wanna observe how people lie through their n how. i am just curious thats all and all the people are SO friendly to u, and even volunteered to take care of u and such...AM I IN HEAVEN?? (yes,but only for now my dear) In fact , i barely knew the person, that is only 1 day/24 hrs, n for the people there ,needless to say, u do the maths. For a person u barely know, they treat u like a goddess/jesus.IRONIC isnt it?

ANOTHER DIMENSION, lets say u r going to Ernst n Young for an interview.Will the people there smile at u n greet u like a VIP?will they show u their humble cctv? will they show u their accounts of earnings?or even show u around the company,telling u wad are their latest technology n et cetera, yup,unless u r mr lee kuan yew or VIP.

ZIP back to NTI : Personally,whether is a pyramid system or binary or wadever u call it, the Bottomline is u r a CHEAT. Now the plan is, you give me $$(say 288 x 4) which will cr8 4 accounts for u to recruit people. { Y 4 accounts? so that u can "cheat" different groups of people aka human discrimination } .Alrighty, u r given the licence of NTI to "extort" money from the innocence/potential prey. u ll first tell them u r recruiting but not selling.however,they will be paying all the money for the 10cents worth product.For every 288 u pay,product worth is say,50 bucks? the remaining ll go to the pockets of ur ever respected DOCTOR j.phang.In addition, those products are TOTALLY WORTHLESS.288 for that skincare?might as well buy christian dior or consult dermatologist. Whose product will u trust? unknown costmetics frm paris or Harvard School of Medicine?i shall not elaborate on others, m sure u guys know it all. the money from mlm is that, sell that worthless product at a outrageous price n dats where ya cash inflow bursts.Basically is just "inviting" more people to "donate" money n buy worthless products n hence the vicious cycle continues.minus the maintainencen puny% of money u earned frm every deal? how many people haf actually earned back?time n effort to earned back wad they haf "donated" ? isnt it absurd? if u haf 4 frens who wanna invest ,might as well rent a shop n chicken rice or chap chai perng,isnt dere a higher chance of earning it back faster? for those in mlm, how many people dare to admit in front of people the know they r in this line?i m not in this biz,of cos i dun noe as much as them,they knew much beta,so much more.However, deep inside them,m sure conscious must be pricking them some time of a day or maybe they were consumed by greed.

If NTI is so fantastic, y aint the agent family members involved? you fu tong xiang rite? frenship? till den...most people will still treasure their kinship no matter wad. which means...if is really good, they will invite their family to the stay in the money tree making machine. In addition, they can extend their target out to people who can readily afford it, for instance...YOUR university professor, jc lecturers n etc ( of cos we r talking abt the more ethical/prof ppl )

However, if our god of singapore, SM Mr Lee Kuan Yew ,promotes NTI..means GOOD! JOIN!!! wahahaahha

+++IMPORTANT+++
all above are just my 2 cents worth of information, i never meant to harm anyone or create a conflict. i shall not hold responsibility for any information similar to mine . thanks!!!!

*************************************************
Who are the ones in NTIparis making money?
Needless to say, of course are those who sit at the top of the pyramid head.

This incorrigible coy is have some new s h i t plan, which will make james phuang become richer and the below poorer! They are increasing the amount to join this stupid coy, and decreasing the payout. You will feel wtf.

None of those members are real, all is hyporcite, if you have any friends from NTIparis, end it. Not only they will cheat you, they will also be a liability for you! Every month they will have to give maintainence without earning a single cant(kinda idiotic or something), and that period they have to be so stingy and poor that you cannot bear with it. Maybe for a couple of months or so is okay, but listen up, it will be long term!

NTIparis can no longer be trusted or make money, because those pyramid heads is nailed onto their seats to cheat kids, they will never give up their seats so don't dreams to become on of those unethical scum ass! Their membership fee is increasing, as well as maintainence, however their personality is decreasing. They like to cheat on themselves, think alot, but not work alot. Idling in the coy like some rich kids, but they can't even feed on themselve.

You wont see anyone defending for NTIparis here, never, because NTIparis have disgrace the entire MLM companies. Furthermore, they are so shameless that they don't regard sgforums.com as a matter, they say they love to be condemn and never condemn people, this is a fact. They have no evidence to defend themselves.

TO ALL NTIparis MEMBERS:
Entering this coy will never have good endings, trust me

Wow this coy is coming up with new plans...

And this new plan sure benefits those jerks on the top...

Account and maintainence fee have tremendously increased!!! It makes having a account in NTIparis simply a liabilty instead of asset. Really, not worth it.

People are getting more and more intolerant with the nonsenses NTIparis does, major decline of people joining this coy, therefore they increase the maintainence to make sure they are able to continue paying the instalment of their BMW.

Stupid and selfless thinking will lead to end of NTIparis... Cheers!

sorry, they are not driving BMW. the only car they driving is a MIT Lancer. so, the money actually goes to their JAMES PHANG. everyone in the company is simpy just a pawn in a chess game.

Basically, you can ask her small questions like: how much you earn already ar? Those people above you who likes to talk earn alot already ar? Ai, look at the those people at the top, is they earning alot of money? They join one so long already leh, only earn such money nia ar? Huh? Only one person can afford a car ar, and is second hand some more wor? Aiya, even next time you earn big bucks, won't you feel guilty meh? Taking money from people who are poor and are looking for a decent job, still human anot sia?

Try to do something like this everyday, keep telling her negative thoughts, but i expect her uplines will physco her even stronger, do not let her go company everyday if possible.

Go read other forums about NTIparis and use those evidence to convinced her... Good Luck!

***NTIparis never provide a earning opportunites for others, they will only dig you deeper.***

NTI (niu trends international)

::From Sg forum::

Questions to ponder:

1. Are the products really from France/Paris? God knows!

2. Their target audience? NSFs? Naive youngsters? If my memory serves me right, NSFs are prohibited from joining such activities. NTI should know that better.

3. Do you think their products say an aroma bottle really cost that much? Where does the bulk of the money go? Whose pocket? You guys shd know. Rolling Eyes

4. Are you sure you can get 100% refund if say you just signed up but haven't collected your products. Well, apparently not, they may say that they have to deduct certain amt for administrative purposes (creating your accounts). That could mean that you get only 90% back.

In conclusion, the message I'm sending across is simple. Don't be fooled by well-rehearsed talks/ceremonies. Seeing really means believing?? Always take a step back and look at the bigger picture first before you do anything. That's my advice to those who are tempted to join NTI or any MLM.

However when you look at the products spore mlm companies selling, mattresses that cost thousands of dollars and once purchase no one's gonna buy it again in the next couple of yrs? and it's like not its relatively cheap and perishable like a can of coca-cola or mars bars. Look at the supplements sold, are they generally superior to the vitamins sold in retail outlets? Has it got a more superior consumer goodwill aka branding than brands such as Blackmore?

When you have run out of avenues to sell these products to esp if they are not perishable or geniunely superior, who are u going to turn to? Recruitments of coz! get ur friends to join and become ur downline so that they sell, u can just collect money. What happens if ur friends suck and aren'r able to sell? u run of sales and therefore commissions, and u are probably spending more time recruiting ppl, hoping they make sales for you. So at the end of the day, you make money by recruiting ppl who can sell or stupid enuff to buy the products themselves so u can earn the commissions. so the answer is yes u can earn money, but u also have to work extremely hard recruiting able ppl to sell, and this cost huge amount of time. Eventually ppl will realise they are not making money and start leaving and you have to work even harder to continue recruiting.

So mlm is pretty much like any other jobs or part time jobs, it's not really any superior than other kind of work out there. Any companies that have sustained sales revenues are able to pay stable salaries to it's employees and encourage them to create sales through commissions. mlms are not such companies, therefore the income u are all entirely thru commissions. I understand that the reason mlm companies say you can only earn through commissions because that will spur you to work hard. Then it's no more passive income! You gotta work hard recruiting or selling in order for the income to come in. It's not like you put in a certain amt of money for an investment and that investment is able to give you a good rate of return say 15% or more every year.

It is the lies these mlm ppl tell or the facade they try create to get ppl to join them that pisses ppl off. No one likes to be led on. And think about it, if these form of distributions is so effective, why aint nike, adidas, macs, burger king, or blackmore, gnc doing it? Why would they spend billions to advertise and get celebrities to endorsE?

Question no.1: Why NTIparis has not collasped yet?
no idea
Question no.2: If so what can we do about it?
we are quite helpless at the moment.
Question no.3: Is what NTIparis doing now the right track or derailed track?
i see no train.

when someone asked you to meet near lau pa sha or raffles place mrt, BEWARE.

before the victim join, their upline and whatsoever above will praise them like siao, after they join, their upline will leave them to die. *should be due to the upline already get what they want. the "in" fees*

i felt cheated...

::Got talk into joining this MLM(multi level marketing)::

I paid a total of $408 inclusive of the registration fees, a workshop, and some thing else.... Just bought a share, not much.. think of getting it back..

I really wished that I had gone on the net before i decide in venturing in that... Cos from what i see, it's the new recuits that are bring in the extra money for the company. The products that the company sell is not worth much, no brands, nothing..

I asked my friend what does the top boss earn then, she told me that the top boss is already a multimillionaire, so he no need to earn too much and this NTI business is an interest for him. He just wanna to show ppl that MLM can be done. Cos it's different from pyramid selling.

Admin (ISO audit) - 6 months

::At last, quiting life as bummer. IF everything goes right::

The adecco agent called me today and told me that I've been shortlisted for an interview. Hope that i will get the job.. Now i need to get on to prepare for my interview.

I will be working with an external auditor, so not really sure that how am i suppose to prepare for it?

Jobs specs:
* To assist in administration of ISO Audit such as typing and filing
* Liaise with respective parties to check on work processes for audit purposes

Working Hours:
Mon - Fri 8.30am - 5.30pm

Requirement:
* Merticulous
* Competent in MS Office software like Word, Excel
* Good working attitude
* Able to long hours when required

So how can i prepare? but nevermind if i didn't get the job, I can always find thru the straits times recruit section.

Jobs

::Mood- not feeling good::

Just received the reply letter from MOE about the application that i sent on the 18/05/2005. They replied real quick when they don't want you.. Felt that they are looking for ppl based on the academic results. I admit that my results are really quite lousy. But at least i passed, and got myself a diploma. Why can't they just allow ppl to go in and try their hands on the job?

But I still want to try out the paramedic job, and yet i haven received any replies yet..